Author Topic: Coosa County Game Wardens  (Read 1062 times)

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coosa1

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Coosa County Game Wardens
« on: January 20, 2012, 11:32:11 PM »
Ok, I have been OCing going on six months now with nary a problem from anybody......till tonight.

Ok so, I have to teach a fur trapping workshop this weekend in Coosa county on the Wildlife Management Area. The DCNR puts on the event I am just a volunteer mentor. Well we had to meet up at the Coosa county courthouse tonight for a little instruction on what we would be doing tomorrow. Not wanting to catch any possible flack for OC in the courthouse I left the sidearm AND the recorder  :loco in the truck.

  Fast forward to the end of the meeting. I am talking with two of the game wardens from the area, keeping in mind I have known these two all my life (and also respect them both fully). Ok so I ask one of them about bringing my sidearm with me on the WMA tomorrow.

Warden 1: "yes thats fine as long as you have your CC permit for it, I think everyone should tote one"
Me: " Yes I have my permit. Well what about open carry?"
Warden1: "You can't do that if you have your concealed carry permit, you can only do one or the other not either or"

This is about the time he left so I started talking with the other.

Me: " so I was talking to warden1 about bringing my handgun on the WMA tomorrow"
Warden 2: " yeah thats fine"
Me: "but he told me that I can't OC whats up with that?"
Warden 2: "you can't!"
Me: "Uhhhhh yeah I can...."
Warden 2 "Oh and why do you think that?"
Me: " Because Alabama is an OC state, I do it all the time and never have a problem with LEOs"
Warden 2: "well you've been carrying illegally, you can't just walk in anywhere with  gun on your hip!"

The conversation went on from there but nothing else notable was said. He wouldn't listen to reason at all and I was almost fighting mad about it so I left. I will try and talk a little more to him tomorrow but I don't think it will do much good...... Like I said I know both of these guys very well and like them alot so I'm not bashing them at all I just want to set them straight on OC. Guess this will be my first project as  Coosa County Coordinator. Boy I sure could use backup......
”Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth.”
~George Washington

coosa1

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 11:34:20 PM »
Also I will add that I have not contacted the sheriff at all on the matter of OC so I will most likely give him a call tomorrow and just ask him how his office handles it and if they realize that not only is it legal, its my constitutional right.
”Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth.”
~George Washington

49er

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 12:27:52 AM »
Coosa1,

The language lawfully "licensed" handguns and lawfully "licensed" persons was replaced with lawfully "authorized" handguns and lawfully "authorized" persons in the emergency rule during the public review period required by the Administrative Proceedures Act this year.  I may have made some comments during that review period. :)

Here's the applicable provisions of the finalized emergency rule that now appears in the Regulation Book:

(NOTE:  This year's Regulation Book was not available in pamphlet form until last week.  I received mine on Jan. 11 after requesting it back in September.  It was not online until Dec. 15.  The GWs may be using last year's edition.)

ALABAMA REGULATIONS 2011-2012  GAME, FISH, AND FUR BEARING ANIMALS,  page 85

Quote
220-2-.55-.192ER Wildlife Management Areas, Community Hunting Areas, Public Hunting Areas, and Refuges of Alabama

(1) It shall be unlawful on ALL WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AREAS, COMMUNITY HUNTING AREAS, PUBLIC HUNTING AREAS, AND REFUGE AREAS, all of which are established as "wildlife management areas" by Rule 220-2-.22 and all of which are hereinafter sometimes collectively referred to herein as "AREAS" or "AREA":
(a) To hunt, trap, use dogs, possess firearms, traps, or bow and arrow, except on open designated target ranges and except bow fishing equipment from March 1 -August 31, without a valid permit. A permit is valid only during scheduled AREA seasons during legal hunting hours and only with the required hunting license(s) and stamps and only with weapons and ammunition permitted for hunting the wildlife listed on permit. See (p) and (ff) for limited exception for certain lawfully authorized handguns possessed for personal protection.


(p) For any person to possess any firearm while hunting with bow and arrow or crossbow, except on days of either sex gun deer hunts. This prohibition shall not apply to the possession of handguns by lawfully authorized persons for their personal protection, provided the handguns are not used to hunt or take or to attempt to take wildlife except as otherwise provided by this regulation.

(ff) Nothing in this regulation prohibits or requires a wildlife management area permit for the possession of handguns by lawfully authorized persons for personal protection, provided the handguns are not used to hunt or take or to attempt to take wildlife except as otherwise provided by this regulation.
  [emphasis added]


Link to the Regulation Book:
http://www.dcnr.state.al.us/images/file/2011-12%20WFF/2011-12%20Complete%20Reg%20Book%20-3%20Proof%20final.pdf


Here's how the rule was worded in last year's Regulation Book 2010-2011:
Quote
220-2-.55 Wildlife Management Areas, Community Hunting Areas,
Public Hunting Areas, and Refuges of Alabama
(1) It shall be unlawful on ALL WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AREAS,
COMMUNITY HUNTING AREAS, PUBLIC HUNTING AREAS,
AND REFUGE AREAS, all of which are established as "wildlife
management areas" by Rule 220-2-.22 and all of which are hereinafter
sometimes collectively referred to herein as "AREAS" or "AREA":
(a) To hunt, trap, use dogs, possess firearms, traps, or bow and arrow,
except on open designated target ranges and except bow fishing
equipment from March 1 -August 31, without a valid permit. A
permit is valid only during scheduled AREA seasons during legal
hunting hours and only with the required hunting license(s) and
stamps and only with weapons and ammunition permitted for
hunting the wildlife listed on permit. See (ff) for limited exception
for certain lawfully licensed handguns possessed for personal
protection.

(p) For any person to possess any firearm while hunting with bow and
arrow or crossbow, except on days of either sex gun deer hunts.

(ff) Nothing in this regulation prohibits or requires a wildlife
management area permit for the possession of handguns by
lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the
handguns are not used to hunt or take or to attempt to take wildlife
except as otherwise provided by this regulation.
   [emphasis added]
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 08:45:30 AM by 49er »

Kirbinator

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 03:19:11 AM »
Looney v State.
Who can endure toil, famine, stripes, imprisonment & death itself in vindication of his own liberty, and the next moment . . . inflict on his fellow men a bondage. -- Thomas Jefferson

"I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... never again!" -- Magneto

HOSS

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 07:12:12 AM »
Coosa,
49er has your back, Pal!

Don't try and tell the Game Wardens the Law. They won't listen, and they shouldn't! Tell them to check their own sources, and get it right!

I'd print out the excerpt that 49er provided, and stick it in my pocket (off-side from my firearm...heheh), and whip it out if they decided to arrest me!

But, you know these folks... do what you think is right...

Ol' Hoss ain't there, and it ain't my hide on the line. . .
"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get me"

AirBear

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 09:01:48 AM »
Coosa,
Everyone has a boss.
The DNR officer's boss is:
Capt Fred Bain
4101 Hwy 21 North
Jacksonville,
AL 36265
256-435-1642
May I suggest you write the good captain and describe the events that transpired and request from him, IN WRITING, a position on the legality of open carry in areas patrolled by DNR personnel and the remainder of the state as well.
Once you receive his reply, you will be good to go. Good to go OC or good to go take his reply to the DA and request his opinion.
Document, document, document.
"Other people may forget from time to time what a good person you are, but there is never an excuse for you to forget"

boyd62

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 12:14:59 PM »
Did you get rained out today? I have OC'ed in Rockford a few times without issue.
Among the many misdeeds of the British in India,history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. Gandhi, from his Autobiography.

boyd62

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 01:11:14 PM »
Ask them if they are familiar with 13A-11-52 and under what authority they carry open on property not their own, cause game wardens are not exempted.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 02:07:48 PM by boyd62 »
Among the many misdeeds of the British in India,history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. Gandhi, from his Autobiography.

Ranger

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 01:59:09 PM »
Nice save, Boyd! You've been reading the threads!  :clap
Always engage your brain before you pull your gun...a quick wit is the best safety device for any gun! If you can't control your tongue, your temper or your tendency to act like a fool, you have no business carrying a gun! The rest of us will scout Boot Hill for your final resting place.

49er

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2012, 04:19:13 PM »
I don't believe I would argue that game wardens are not allowed to carry firearms on property not their own. 


Game wardens have the power and authority of deputy sheriffs by law:

Quote
Section 9-11-8
Violations of fish and game laws - Authority of enforcement officers, etc., generally; arrest without warrant.
All enforcement officers and inspectors employed by the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources are clothed with the power and authority of deputy sheriffs and shall arrest without warrant and carry before the district court of the county in which an offense is committed any person violating any of the provisions of the game and fish laws or the rules and regulations made and promulgated thereunder.

(Acts 1935, No. 240, p. 632, § 52; Code 1940, T. 8, §51.)
  (emphasis added)

Quote
Section 9-2-65
Powers and duties of game and fish wardens; powers and duties of director with respect to game and fish wardens.
(a) Game and fish wardens shall have power:

...(4) To carry firearms as provided by law for enforcement officers when in the discharge of their official duties;

...(6) To enter upon any land or water in the performance of their duty;


Quote
Section 9-11-5
Commissioner, wardens, etc., constituted peace officers.

The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources, his wardens, agents and employees shall be and are hereby constituted peace officers of the State of Alabama with full and unlimited police power and jurisdiction to enforce the provisions of the game and fish laws and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, and they may exercise such power in any county of the State of Alabama or in or on any waters of the State of Alabama or within the territorial jurisdiction of the state.
(Acts 1935, No. 240, p. 632, §47; Code 1940, T. 8, §46.)

Quote
Section 13A-3-22
Execution of public duty.

Unless inconsistent with other provisions of this article, or with some other provision of law, conduct which would otherwise constitute an offense is justifiable and not criminal when it is required or authorized by law or by a judicial decree or is performed by a public servant in the reasonable exercise of his official powers, duties or functions.

(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §605; Acts 1979, No. 79-471, p. 862, §1.)



BTW:
The sheriff and his deputies also have authority to enforce the game and fish laws of the state:
Quote
Section 9-11-252.1

Motor vehicle, weapons, etc., used in nighttime deer hunting declared contraband; seizure report; condemnation and forfeiture; disposition of proceeds.


... (b) The sheriff or any other person authorized to enforce the game and fish laws of this state ...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 04:43:38 PM by 49er »

49er

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 04:44:36 PM »
[Edited: double post]
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 09:45:32 PM by 49er »

woodpile

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Re: Coosa County Game Wardens
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 05:12:51 PM »
Coosa,
49er has your back, Pal!

Don't try and tell the Game Wardens the Law. They won't listen, and they shouldn't! Tell them to check their own sources, and get it right!

I'd print out the excerpt that 49er provided, and stick it in my pocket (off-side from my firearm...heheh), and whip it out if they decided to arrest me!

But, you know these folks... do what you think is right...

Ol' Hoss ain't there, and it ain't my hide on the line. . .

Have you asked them to show you what the charge is for OC?
The Honorable Woodpile
Constable - Coffee County

Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless..
    -- Isaiah 10:1-2

 


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